The 20th edition of the YES (Yalta European Strategy) conference has concluded in Kyiv. Among the guests were delegations from many countries, the heads of Polish and Lithuanian diplomacy, Radek Sikorski and Gabrielius Landsbergis, former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and many others.
On Sept. 14, Kyiv Post had the opportunity to discuss the topics raised at the conference with Maciej Kopiec, a Polish senator and vice-chairman of the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee from the New Left.
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Michał Kujawski: The 20th edition of the YES conference is coming to an end. What topics dominate the behind-the-scenes discussions?
Maciej Kopiec: First and foremost, people with enormous intellectual potential have gathered here, people who understand what Ukraine is fighting for. You can hear many wise words about the direction we should follow. Supporting Ukraine should be constant, unwavering and cannot be contested in any way. We must realize that this is not just Ukraine’s war, but the West’s war. It is a war against autocratic, Russian imperialism. We cannot allow what Russia is doing.
Since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, much has been said about the unity of the West in response to Russian aggression. How does it look now?
Many words are spoken, but words are not everything.
Ukraine is fighting for values that Western leaders should uphold not just with words, but with real support.
Ukrainians are in need of actions. They have heard enough words.
What is missing is what President Zelensky spoke about at the very beginning, in February 2022 – he doesn’t need a ride [evacuation from Ukraine], but ammunition. This is still relevant; Ukraine is fighting.
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The people I speak with are tired of constantly hearing more expressions of support.
That’s true. Words of support don’t help in the fight against an enemy that is killing and raping people who are fighting for freedom. Ukraine is fighting for values that Western leaders should uphold not just with words, but with real support. The GDP percentage of allies allocated to aid Ukraine is still too low. In my opinion, it’s actually a laughable level.
Current support is not sufficient?
It should be significantly higher. Today, we have a situation where Germany includes repairs to its highways in its defense expenditures. This is a paradox, and the situation boils down to a very real cliché – Ukraine is fighting today for the West. Europe is in a comfortable position, waging a war on territory that is not its own, but that of an ally politically and culturally aligned with the West. The blood sacrifice is made by Ukrainians, not citizens of EU or NATO countries.
There was a large delegation from Poland at the conference.
I’m very pleased. Former President Aleksander Kwaśniewski is here, as is Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski, representatives of the Polish-Ukrainian Chamber of Commerce, including Vice President Dariusz Szymczycha, who takes care of economic relations with Ukraine. There are also many people interested in developing relations after the war and in providing current support. This is very optimistic. In February, at the conference marking the anniversary of the invasion, the representation was, in my opinion, too small.
In terms of Polish-Ukrainian relations, we have recently observed many tensions related to historical issues. The still unresolved topic of Volhynia has been raised by Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and other politicians in the ruling coalition. Poland is increasingly demanding the resolution of historical issues. Were historical matters discussed at YES?
We didn’t discuss it on Saturday. Historical issues are not the main focus of the conference. It mainly concentrates on the present and the future. Of course, the Volhynia issue needs to be resolved clearly. Exhumations must be conducted and the victims must be commemorated with dignity. However, we must clearly define our priorities – in a situation where Putin is trying to establish a new world order, does historical policy belong among them? First and foremost, we must defeat Putin and develop the West. In a developed West, there will be time to address all historical issues.
What is your assessment of Polish-Ukrainian relations?
They are still very good, and personally, I have excellent experiences. I have frequently participated in humanitarian and military support transports. I have regularly attended YES conferences for the past three years. I see the openness of Ukrainians towards Poland and Poles. There is friendship between us; I have witnessed many touching situations. These occur in many different areas. Polish society has contributed greatly since the beginning of the full-scale aggression. We have taken in millions of refugees into our own homes, and the level of social engagement was unprecedented. All that we have gained together also provides a good foundation for resolving historical issues.
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The leadership of the Polish diplomatic mission in Kyiv has been taken over by a new diplomat. Who is Piotr Łukasiewicz?
Poland is represented in Kyiv and Ukraine by an excellent, substantive figure. The new Ambassador, Piotr Łukasiewicz, is an expert with experience working in Afghanistan, who knows very well how to conduct diplomacy under the conditions that prevail in Ukraine today and along the Polish-Ukrainian line. I’m pleased with this choice – after all, our diplomacy uses the argument of competence and practical preparation for representing the Polish state. This is a huge step forward, which will result in strengthening the alliance between our countries.
This week is rich in diplomatic events in Kyiv. Just recently, the Ukrainian capital saw the departure of Antony Blinken and David Lammy. One of the topics of the American and British diplomats’ visit was the issue of using Western-supplied weapons on Russian territory. However, I find it hard to believe that this matter required so many trips. Some fear that this could cross the red line set by the Kremlin, but we have already observed such things quite often. What is this game about?
Blinken’s visit is a message to American voters – it is an announcement of the continuation of support for Ukraine. Trump was unable to clarify his position on this matter. For all those who are pro-Western, pro-European, and pro-NATO, the choice between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris is obvious. Unfortunately, the worst thing about Trump is his commitments to Putin.
We must keep this in mind when discussing the political situation in the USA. Is the possibility of using long-range weapons to strike targets in Russia necessary? Personally, I believe there are more pressing issues, such as defending Ukrainian territory. We are dealing with occupied areas and a front line where Ukrainian soldiers are dying. In my opinion, the operation conducted by Ukraine in the Kursk region at the negotiating level is sufficient.
Attacks on targets within Russian territory will allow for the destruction of supply lines, logistics, warehouses, and airports. At the end of a day, this will help save Ukrainian soldiers and territory.
There is, however, one thing I want to constantly remind people of – Ukraine has too little weaponry and ammunition. We debate over one type of weapon or another, but it should have been delivered here a long time ago. This is a war between the West and Russian autocracy.
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